Wow. That's interesting. We have parallel understandings of the Eucharist. I don't think we actually "meet" anywhere -- hence "parallel" -- but you have an understanding of transubstantiation that doesn't require you to remove your brain and set it aside, and I have an understanding of Protestant communion that spares me that pain as well.
I have a different personal interpretation of the command (e.g. Lk. 22:19 -- "do this in remembrance of Me"), the question being what exactly is the "this", and I also have to make an adjustment to keep from losing my mind. Without going into detail, I understand "this" to be something that occurred back then within a regular communal meal, most often in a home. Except I've never done that with any of my churches (nine or so different denominations -- or "non" -- where I have taken communion), with the exception of two "seder" / Last Supper re-enactments taking place in church social halls.
To make matters worse, the last three churches (including my present one) substitute grape juice for wine. The ones before that either used wine or offered a choice. This seems to have to do with church size, convenience, concerns relating to alcohol addiction, and sometimes "no alcohol" traditions leading to "no alcohol on campus" rules, but nothing biblical.
It gets even stranger when I occasionally run screens on Communion Sunday, where I'm juggling slides while all of this is going on and my participation in communion is interwoven with other necessary concentrating and hand movements and an inability to think about what we are there to do! And I'm just one member of the team that actively supports the service during the service. This is pretty far out from what Jesus or Paul probably had in mind.
I remember times the choir was on chancel during communion, once for two consecutive services in one morning ("As often as you…"). I was up there those times except the time I was watching from the screens console as the servers almost forgot about the choir. Fortunately, some of the servers are also choir members and they didn't forget their own. I wonder what Paul would have to say about all that.
So am I in big trouble for not obeying the commandment? No more than the thief on the cross, who never had the opportunity in the first place. My adjustment is, each time, to ask God to accept the spirit of what we are doing.
I have been present at RC Masses in the past, but I was either not currently a believer or was not welcomed to partake. In contrast, almost all of my churches have practiced "open communion" for believers. The closest I have come to Catholic is Lutheran communion. But if the situation warranted it and the permission was there, I think I could, and I am not entirely unfamiliar with the Mass. Latin would be another matter. (Give me ancient Greek!)
I could get into it with you about John 6:54 and what that means, but with the flawed way that I celebrate communion I'd best not. I will say in your favor that Jesus' words, in the Greek, about eating his flesh are quite emphatic. He uses an alternate word for "eat" that could be understood as a more vigorous "munch" or "chomp", and the word order for "my" is not what I am accustomed to seeing. My commentary (Klink) describes the latter as "positively and with clear first-person reference". I can begin to see more clearly why "many of his disciples turned back and no longer associated with him". Chomp. Wow.
Having been excommunicated by my Trad Latin Mass community because my first brief marriage ended in divorce. My second wife of 20 years and I are refused communion as a result. Annulment is not an option I would pursue. I made a mistake and acknowledged that. The rainbow church appears more tolerant, but I have no wish to participate there. I sometimes muse around the exclamation of, 'let no man put asunder'. ... Is this always interpreted in a generic fashion ... ie. 'mankind'. What happens when a woman declares she no longer wishes to be married?
This was very interesting and I thank you for explaining the Catholic way of partaking the Sacrament.
Wow. That's interesting. We have parallel understandings of the Eucharist. I don't think we actually "meet" anywhere -- hence "parallel" -- but you have an understanding of transubstantiation that doesn't require you to remove your brain and set it aside, and I have an understanding of Protestant communion that spares me that pain as well.
I have a different personal interpretation of the command (e.g. Lk. 22:19 -- "do this in remembrance of Me"), the question being what exactly is the "this", and I also have to make an adjustment to keep from losing my mind. Without going into detail, I understand "this" to be something that occurred back then within a regular communal meal, most often in a home. Except I've never done that with any of my churches (nine or so different denominations -- or "non" -- where I have taken communion), with the exception of two "seder" / Last Supper re-enactments taking place in church social halls.
To make matters worse, the last three churches (including my present one) substitute grape juice for wine. The ones before that either used wine or offered a choice. This seems to have to do with church size, convenience, concerns relating to alcohol addiction, and sometimes "no alcohol" traditions leading to "no alcohol on campus" rules, but nothing biblical.
It gets even stranger when I occasionally run screens on Communion Sunday, where I'm juggling slides while all of this is going on and my participation in communion is interwoven with other necessary concentrating and hand movements and an inability to think about what we are there to do! And I'm just one member of the team that actively supports the service during the service. This is pretty far out from what Jesus or Paul probably had in mind.
I remember times the choir was on chancel during communion, once for two consecutive services in one morning ("As often as you…"). I was up there those times except the time I was watching from the screens console as the servers almost forgot about the choir. Fortunately, some of the servers are also choir members and they didn't forget their own. I wonder what Paul would have to say about all that.
So am I in big trouble for not obeying the commandment? No more than the thief on the cross, who never had the opportunity in the first place. My adjustment is, each time, to ask God to accept the spirit of what we are doing.
I have been present at RC Masses in the past, but I was either not currently a believer or was not welcomed to partake. In contrast, almost all of my churches have practiced "open communion" for believers. The closest I have come to Catholic is Lutheran communion. But if the situation warranted it and the permission was there, I think I could, and I am not entirely unfamiliar with the Mass. Latin would be another matter. (Give me ancient Greek!)
I could get into it with you about John 6:54 and what that means, but with the flawed way that I celebrate communion I'd best not. I will say in your favor that Jesus' words, in the Greek, about eating his flesh are quite emphatic. He uses an alternate word for "eat" that could be understood as a more vigorous "munch" or "chomp", and the word order for "my" is not what I am accustomed to seeing. My commentary (Klink) describes the latter as "positively and with clear first-person reference". I can begin to see more clearly why "many of his disciples turned back and no longer associated with him". Chomp. Wow.
This is wonderful work you have done here, Napoleon! I am blessed -- thank you!
Thank you, Napoleon! Very important discourse.
Having been excommunicated by my Trad Latin Mass community because my first brief marriage ended in divorce. My second wife of 20 years and I are refused communion as a result. Annulment is not an option I would pursue. I made a mistake and acknowledged that. The rainbow church appears more tolerant, but I have no wish to participate there. I sometimes muse around the exclamation of, 'let no man put asunder'. ... Is this always interpreted in a generic fashion ... ie. 'mankind'. What happens when a woman declares she no longer wishes to be married?
I do too. Thank you for this. God bless.