One of those clowns has popped in and out of our chapel several times over the past year. He got seated next to me once at the back, and wouldn’t shut up asking questions about ‘real Latin’ prayers. So, I made him follow the 1962 missal with me through the entire mass.
This was about 6 months before the Richmond memo was leaked. Too bad we didn’t know at the time, or I would have asked to see his badge.
Oh I believe it. If you're serious about the Latin Mass, you sit and watch, for a long time. I did that for months. Then I bought the missal and followed along myself. It takes a lifetime of reflection, study and attendance to understand the Mass. I assume the tripwires are most prevalent in the Bible Study groups (yes Catholics study the bible!) where people can have discussions amongst themselves. Attending the Roman Catholic Mass is quite solitary and probably alot of informants are disappointed in how silent it is.
Except for the nonstop noise from all the cooing and crying babies. Are they really planning to prosecute those families? Oh wait, China already did that…..
My husband and I have gotten used to biting our tongues, and refusing to take the bait, especially around certain other parishioners who seem inclined to behave as if they might be agents provocateurs. We do distance ourselves from such persons until they either get a clue and learn to hold their foolish tongues, or get a new assignment and disappear. So far they have stuck around, sadly.
It is sad that we appear to be under surveillance, but we are registered parishioners, and hopefully will be able to remain so.
You never know who is who around you. The last Church I attended showed that as I did many activities there. Now I just want the Mass, Confession and Communion. The saddest thing is that the surveillance is coming most from the Priests and Bishops, that's who the FBI really wants to recruit - it says it right in the memo. I do like my Pastor but, you just never know... as you said... that's sad. I pray to God about this alot.
I am envious. I left my church (still make weekly online donations)...and haven't been able to find a good substitute. I won't enroll either. I'd really like to found or start a monsterary/convent. Benedictine or something.
The nudge. I know people will say it's trite - but God will show you way when He's ready to lead you to a new Church. Maybe the monastery/convent idea is percolating with Him. Who knows? I thought about the convent, but I am too old now. I read your comments on other stacks all the time Duchess, you have a wisdom that can be used in this world now, God knows that.
Napoleon, I am sorry that you have had such a disappointing and difficult situation at your church. Years ago I stopped going out of indifference to a problem that I was having with an assignment to teach a class of preteen boys in Sunday school. I had asked for another female teacher or parent to help me but that never happened even though I repeatedly asked for help. Around the fourth attempt I decided that was the last straw and didn't go back for about a year. Then I had moved to another area with different people and what a joy that congregation was for my soul!! It does help to start fresh some times when all else fails.
Hi Charlotte, I have heard that that Mormon Church is also on the FBI's list. For sure the Feds do not like the missionary work the Mormons do and I'd be surprised if there are not tripwires being placed in certain Churches. That's a sad thing to think about though. As you say, starting fresh is good, especially when you just follow where God leads. Sometimes God leads you to sit "Churchless" for awhile, and that is a good thing too.
Yes, I am sure that we Christians are on some list from many different churches. Of course they don't like Godly people as they are devilish creatures knowing that their time is for a short season probably to divide the sheep from the goats in these latter days. So be it.
Even a big percentage of Orthodox Churches fell for the Covid scam and did things that are pure heresy in masking etc am blessed to have found an uncompromising parish to migrate into.
Everybody fell for the demonic scam (just like the Garden of Eden). I remember the first SSPX Mass I attended in person, the Pastor's first words during the Homily were "I've been too strict with the covid nonsense and I apologize." So I assume that a week before the Church was still masking and social distancing. God sent me to that Church at the exact right time. I see what is happening to the Orthodox Churches in Ukraine and can only hang my head in shame that the US is supporting such a regime. But tripwires go everywhere.
Indeed they do! The WEF stated publically at one point of their goal to break up the Orthodox Church. The ‘Green Patriarch” in Constantinople has been a CIA tool for years. It’s a great sadness to see the desecration of the Kiev Caves Lavra. So much evil has taken over in our country…. Lord have Mercy on us all.
Ah yes. Dear old church. I love them so much that I've had seven "home" churches as an adult, left six, member of six, and two "auxiliary" churches, one past and one present (I might visit the other once in a blue moon -- it's Pentecostal!). Estranged from two conservative churches that were pre-transition, and estranged from four churches (two liberal/progressive) because of covid lunacy.
Church hesitant. I don't know who or what might be embedded in the present one. The staff is rather young, and leaning in directions that I question. Oh well, what else is new. I don't sit quietly; I engage. Only trans member of the classic service choir (but I absolutely do not promote the goings on of the present-day "trans community").
In my experience, following Jesus is much more a personal thing than a church thing. I guess it depends on your tradition. I see church being a place to gather with at least a few others with similar views, and possibly meet more. Quiet meditation is barely possible, although I manage it sometimes between end of choir rehearsal and the time that others begin to arrive. I don't really know for sure what the rest of the congregation is doing there.
What I find comforting about the Roman Catholic Mass is that it is supposed to be the same, no matter where you go, no matter who attends, and no matter who the Priest is. But Vatican II upended it all, and now the Catholic Church resembles Protestant Churches, where everything is different depending on the Pastor and the people attending. That's why I went back to the Traditional Latin Mass - it is all about the Jesus' sacrifice and the real presence of Jesus. "Do this in memory of me," and that is what we do, every day/week. During Mass is the time for personal reflection with Jesus and God, after Mass is when people can gather together and socialize if they like. Right now, the Mass is all I need and want until God shows me otherwise.
I do love choirs though! I wish I could sing and I might join that function (but they'd probably reject me). I'm going to send an anonymous offering to the choir at my Church this week for all the wonderful music they provided during Lent/Holy Week/Easter. You guys and gals are appreciated by us anonymous parishioners!
I can see why you value that kind of gathering. The church I grew up in ("came of age in" would be more accurate) had that kind of denominational consistency, at least. So did the next one, and I would notice this when I traveled. The uniformity and consistency I experience now comes from morning prayer, daily Bible study, and praxis, not from a church.
I will sometimes sit and meditate or pray before a church service starts, but evidently almost no one knows what that is, and interruptions occur regularly. People come into the sanctuary to socialize, rather than use the narthex (now commonly called the "lobby") and other spaces, they arrive late during the prelude, and they resume their chatter during the postlude. This can be seen just about anywhere. At my present church, more recently, the choir and others have been standing for the postlude (if we are not still on the risers), facing the musician(s), and not talking, setting a counter-example. A friend of mine performs many of the postludes, and I know of the work that he puts in beforehand!
The actual ekklēsia-assemblies occur elsewhere and at other times. For me, that is adult Sunday school (medium-sized study group), Wednesday small group study, and occasional large group events. There was talk of a Saturday prayer gathering, but it didn't materialize. I should include choir practice as well -- it's not just practice time.
This is my sixth choir, and none has ever required an audition. Otherwise I likely wouldn't have been in some of them, including the present one. I do have musical training, however, dating from elementary school onward, including clarinet, piano, and voice (training does not imply talent). After I joined the first choir, I took group and then private singing lessons, and I began to teach myself sight-singing around the same time. This is definitely an advantage, but not a requirement.
Being visibly trans-autistic and (later) singing alto required a different sort of training to even go up there, but God provided that and it came in stages. I believe that simply singing in a choir without having had musical training would probably be easier, assuming you're not tone deaf.
Oh I'm tone deaf! I'll leave the singing to those who can do it. I also butchered the clarinet growing up. But yet I keep trying to play the piano. God gave me artistic skills but completely left out any musical ability.
Two more things we have in common, what we did with/to clarinets, and our refusal to give up on pianos. I know what my problem with that is, and it is neurological and not confined to piano playing, but I have low-to-intermediate level praise music that I return to when I can, along with other easy piano pieces for variety. I can play some intermediate pieces if I memorize them and practice over and over. And over and over.
My musical friend that I mentioned earlier plays by ear and transposes effortlessly, and can change styles on the fly, but when he has a difficult organ piece coming up, usually a postlude, he practices over and over. And sometimes over and over again. (I didn't realize he played organ until we both came to this church in 2021.) I caught this guy playing Chopin etudes from memory, after choir practice on the upright practice piano, and being upset because he didn't remember them perfectly. We're never satisfied.
I have an 88-key Yamaha electronic piano that must be going on 20 years old. It has a floppy disk drive, although I no longer own any floppy disks. I also use it for playing and listening to some of the more difficult choir part segments. Some anthems contain interesting chords that, when broken down by choir section, can be very strange to sing.
I realize that I have just written several comments to you inserted post from early March when you wrote to your priest. My PCUSA congregation started pushing that 'we must be outgoing and eagerly greeting people' line, maybe 12 years ago. It didn't sit well with me, an introvert, but I tried to do my part. However, I realized that when I enter the sanctuary, I want to be silent and prayerful, and open to God's voice. Not to be socializing. And when the service has ended, I want to leave without talking to anyone else--not out of cussedness but out of residual 'spiritual experience'. My husband of similar mind. 8 years ago, when congregational TPTB decided to overhaul the sanctuary once again, and everyone be in folding metal chairs on the vinyl floor of the 'fellowship hall', I thought I would take a break--because my surroundings do indeed affect my spirit. Well, never went back. We had been members at that point for 26 years. And steady financial supporters. And I even an elder. Now, very peculiar this---despite those last 3 qualities, the church never once contacted us after we stopped showing up. I have figured that when God wants me to change this out-situation, He will tell me (because He has spoken to me several times).
"However, I realized that when I enter the sanctuary, I want to be silent and prayerful, and open to God's voice. Not to be socializing."
Amen. Just one spot for reflection, prayer and silence. The Vatican II Catholic Churches have destroyed that - it's all socializing, all the time, in front of the altar and sanctuary. Now at the TLM Parish I attend, the only group socializing is the saying of the Rosary 30 minutes before Mass. Sometimes I partake in the group prayer and sometimes I don't.
"And I even an elder. Now, very peculiar this---despite those last 3 qualities, the church never once contacted us after we stopped showing up."
That tells you so much doesn't it? But God contacted you and that is all that matters. He will direct you in where He wants you to go. "Church-less," "anonymous-Churched," or "fully-Churched." One thing I do know is that God does not want Tripwires and Type 5 Assessments in His House of Prayer.
Thanks so much for replying, Napoleon--and for validating what I think is His purpose--because I have often wondered whether I am just rationalizing to make my Sunday mornings easier. An aside---the PCUSA website makes so clear their pro-pro-pro stance on the injections, even stating that they disallowed 'religious exemptions'. !!-- Ergo, the congregation must be filled with shedders...and I avoid proximity to those who have taken the jab--at least, until I find evidence that my fears lack ground.
My substack readings each morning lead me to so much Bible reading. A friend told me she is doing one of those 'read the Bible in a year' programs--such have never appealed to me. Thinking about it yesterday, I realized that I don't want someone telling me what (and when) I have to read of scripture---but what is going on now, in Substack, is that commenters are posting their thoughts, then including scripture relevant to their posts, and by following their lead I am led to passages which are highly relevant to current concerns. The lectionary is a nice idea--but it is static. Substack (there are SO many Christians here) is making a place for God's word to be its own dynamic self. [And having typed that penultimate word, I had to go upstairs to check in my Liddell and Scott--yup--dynamis--power, force, strength--forces of war. ]
Also, the Presbyterians--who facetiously refer to themselves as "God's frozen chosen", being of a dour (that Scottish background!) disposition, took from the RC Church 'the passing of the peace'--which was a totally artificial imposition on our denominational habit/character. Another borrow: standing in line to take communion, where we had always taken it in our pews--sitting down, not moving around--peaceful and prayerful. All in the name of ecumenism.
So many people did the same. Our eyes were really opened up to the tyranny around us, even in Church which should be the last place for such tyranny. So many people switched Churches or left never to come back to any Church. But so many people also discovered God again, even if just spiritually. In 20 years we will look back and see all the good coming out of the evil of the last three years - that's probably why the Feds are trying to infiltrate Churches, it must stop any good from happening (adjusting my tin-foil hat again!).
I found a different church I like, but getting my young adult kids to go back to church after 2020 a very difficult endeavor. I can't say I'm less spiritual though. I turn to the Bible more.
I was taught there should be no gray area and with each year that passes, what my old church teaches is more and more gray.
Hi Kokanee, beautiful and thoughtful comment. God has to be lived with 24/7/365, not just thought about one hour a week. So why Church and is Church just man-made? That's probably why I just hover as an anonymous Church-goer. I'm trying to figure out the narrow path, without tripwires! Different people get different things out of different religions and Churches, and that's probably what God intends - but all roads must lead to Him, which you say is Peace and freedom knowing all things.
To your and Kokanee thoughful comments we do indeed have a ‘God shaped hole’ and a built-in yearning for connection with our Maker. The original ‘deposit of faith and teachings’ of Christ’s Church is the lens through which the Scriptures are to be interpreted. It isn’t what I think they mean, it’s what the Church (through the Holy Fathers and Apostles) says about them that brings clarity and hope. Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today and forever. The decaying remains of our post-“Enlightment” culture worships autonomy to the point of madness. May the Lord guide and bless you with His peace.
Informationthat I did not know about Paul. There's always been something that nags at me about Paul and I don't know what it is. Someday I will really delve into his letters.
One of those clowns has popped in and out of our chapel several times over the past year. He got seated next to me once at the back, and wouldn’t shut up asking questions about ‘real Latin’ prayers. So, I made him follow the 1962 missal with me through the entire mass.
This was about 6 months before the Richmond memo was leaked. Too bad we didn’t know at the time, or I would have asked to see his badge.
Oh I believe it. If you're serious about the Latin Mass, you sit and watch, for a long time. I did that for months. Then I bought the missal and followed along myself. It takes a lifetime of reflection, study and attendance to understand the Mass. I assume the tripwires are most prevalent in the Bible Study groups (yes Catholics study the bible!) where people can have discussions amongst themselves. Attending the Roman Catholic Mass is quite solitary and probably alot of informants are disappointed in how silent it is.
Except for the nonstop noise from all the cooing and crying babies. Are they really planning to prosecute those families? Oh wait, China already did that…..
My husband and I have gotten used to biting our tongues, and refusing to take the bait, especially around certain other parishioners who seem inclined to behave as if they might be agents provocateurs. We do distance ourselves from such persons until they either get a clue and learn to hold their foolish tongues, or get a new assignment and disappear. So far they have stuck around, sadly.
It is sad that we appear to be under surveillance, but we are registered parishioners, and hopefully will be able to remain so.
You never know who is who around you. The last Church I attended showed that as I did many activities there. Now I just want the Mass, Confession and Communion. The saddest thing is that the surveillance is coming most from the Priests and Bishops, that's who the FBI really wants to recruit - it says it right in the memo. I do like my Pastor but, you just never know... as you said... that's sad. I pray to God about this alot.
I am envious. I left my church (still make weekly online donations)...and haven't been able to find a good substitute. I won't enroll either. I'd really like to found or start a monsterary/convent. Benedictine or something.
The nudge. I know people will say it's trite - but God will show you way when He's ready to lead you to a new Church. Maybe the monastery/convent idea is percolating with Him. Who knows? I thought about the convent, but I am too old now. I read your comments on other stacks all the time Duchess, you have a wisdom that can be used in this world now, God knows that.
Napoleon, I am sorry that you have had such a disappointing and difficult situation at your church. Years ago I stopped going out of indifference to a problem that I was having with an assignment to teach a class of preteen boys in Sunday school. I had asked for another female teacher or parent to help me but that never happened even though I repeatedly asked for help. Around the fourth attempt I decided that was the last straw and didn't go back for about a year. Then I had moved to another area with different people and what a joy that congregation was for my soul!! It does help to start fresh some times when all else fails.
Hi Charlotte, I have heard that that Mormon Church is also on the FBI's list. For sure the Feds do not like the missionary work the Mormons do and I'd be surprised if there are not tripwires being placed in certain Churches. That's a sad thing to think about though. As you say, starting fresh is good, especially when you just follow where God leads. Sometimes God leads you to sit "Churchless" for awhile, and that is a good thing too.
Yes, I am sure that we Christians are on some list from many different churches. Of course they don't like Godly people as they are devilish creatures knowing that their time is for a short season probably to divide the sheep from the goats in these latter days. So be it.
Even a big percentage of Orthodox Churches fell for the Covid scam and did things that are pure heresy in masking etc am blessed to have found an uncompromising parish to migrate into.
Everybody fell for the demonic scam (just like the Garden of Eden). I remember the first SSPX Mass I attended in person, the Pastor's first words during the Homily were "I've been too strict with the covid nonsense and I apologize." So I assume that a week before the Church was still masking and social distancing. God sent me to that Church at the exact right time. I see what is happening to the Orthodox Churches in Ukraine and can only hang my head in shame that the US is supporting such a regime. But tripwires go everywhere.
Indeed they do! The WEF stated publically at one point of their goal to break up the Orthodox Church. The ‘Green Patriarch” in Constantinople has been a CIA tool for years. It’s a great sadness to see the desecration of the Kiev Caves Lavra. So much evil has taken over in our country…. Lord have Mercy on us all.
Ah yes. Dear old church. I love them so much that I've had seven "home" churches as an adult, left six, member of six, and two "auxiliary" churches, one past and one present (I might visit the other once in a blue moon -- it's Pentecostal!). Estranged from two conservative churches that were pre-transition, and estranged from four churches (two liberal/progressive) because of covid lunacy.
Church hesitant. I don't know who or what might be embedded in the present one. The staff is rather young, and leaning in directions that I question. Oh well, what else is new. I don't sit quietly; I engage. Only trans member of the classic service choir (but I absolutely do not promote the goings on of the present-day "trans community").
In my experience, following Jesus is much more a personal thing than a church thing. I guess it depends on your tradition. I see church being a place to gather with at least a few others with similar views, and possibly meet more. Quiet meditation is barely possible, although I manage it sometimes between end of choir rehearsal and the time that others begin to arrive. I don't really know for sure what the rest of the congregation is doing there.
What I find comforting about the Roman Catholic Mass is that it is supposed to be the same, no matter where you go, no matter who attends, and no matter who the Priest is. But Vatican II upended it all, and now the Catholic Church resembles Protestant Churches, where everything is different depending on the Pastor and the people attending. That's why I went back to the Traditional Latin Mass - it is all about the Jesus' sacrifice and the real presence of Jesus. "Do this in memory of me," and that is what we do, every day/week. During Mass is the time for personal reflection with Jesus and God, after Mass is when people can gather together and socialize if they like. Right now, the Mass is all I need and want until God shows me otherwise.
I do love choirs though! I wish I could sing and I might join that function (but they'd probably reject me). I'm going to send an anonymous offering to the choir at my Church this week for all the wonderful music they provided during Lent/Holy Week/Easter. You guys and gals are appreciated by us anonymous parishioners!
I can see why you value that kind of gathering. The church I grew up in ("came of age in" would be more accurate) had that kind of denominational consistency, at least. So did the next one, and I would notice this when I traveled. The uniformity and consistency I experience now comes from morning prayer, daily Bible study, and praxis, not from a church.
I will sometimes sit and meditate or pray before a church service starts, but evidently almost no one knows what that is, and interruptions occur regularly. People come into the sanctuary to socialize, rather than use the narthex (now commonly called the "lobby") and other spaces, they arrive late during the prelude, and they resume their chatter during the postlude. This can be seen just about anywhere. At my present church, more recently, the choir and others have been standing for the postlude (if we are not still on the risers), facing the musician(s), and not talking, setting a counter-example. A friend of mine performs many of the postludes, and I know of the work that he puts in beforehand!
The actual ekklēsia-assemblies occur elsewhere and at other times. For me, that is adult Sunday school (medium-sized study group), Wednesday small group study, and occasional large group events. There was talk of a Saturday prayer gathering, but it didn't materialize. I should include choir practice as well -- it's not just practice time.
This is my sixth choir, and none has ever required an audition. Otherwise I likely wouldn't have been in some of them, including the present one. I do have musical training, however, dating from elementary school onward, including clarinet, piano, and voice (training does not imply talent). After I joined the first choir, I took group and then private singing lessons, and I began to teach myself sight-singing around the same time. This is definitely an advantage, but not a requirement.
Being visibly trans-autistic and (later) singing alto required a different sort of training to even go up there, but God provided that and it came in stages. I believe that simply singing in a choir without having had musical training would probably be easier, assuming you're not tone deaf.
Oh I'm tone deaf! I'll leave the singing to those who can do it. I also butchered the clarinet growing up. But yet I keep trying to play the piano. God gave me artistic skills but completely left out any musical ability.
Two more things we have in common, what we did with/to clarinets, and our refusal to give up on pianos. I know what my problem with that is, and it is neurological and not confined to piano playing, but I have low-to-intermediate level praise music that I return to when I can, along with other easy piano pieces for variety. I can play some intermediate pieces if I memorize them and practice over and over. And over and over.
My musical friend that I mentioned earlier plays by ear and transposes effortlessly, and can change styles on the fly, but when he has a difficult organ piece coming up, usually a postlude, he practices over and over. And sometimes over and over again. (I didn't realize he played organ until we both came to this church in 2021.) I caught this guy playing Chopin etudes from memory, after choir practice on the upright practice piano, and being upset because he didn't remember them perfectly. We're never satisfied.
I have an 88-key Yamaha electronic piano that must be going on 20 years old. It has a floppy disk drive, although I no longer own any floppy disks. I also use it for playing and listening to some of the more difficult choir part segments. Some anthems contain interesting chords that, when broken down by choir section, can be very strange to sing.
I realize that I have just written several comments to you inserted post from early March when you wrote to your priest. My PCUSA congregation started pushing that 'we must be outgoing and eagerly greeting people' line, maybe 12 years ago. It didn't sit well with me, an introvert, but I tried to do my part. However, I realized that when I enter the sanctuary, I want to be silent and prayerful, and open to God's voice. Not to be socializing. And when the service has ended, I want to leave without talking to anyone else--not out of cussedness but out of residual 'spiritual experience'. My husband of similar mind. 8 years ago, when congregational TPTB decided to overhaul the sanctuary once again, and everyone be in folding metal chairs on the vinyl floor of the 'fellowship hall', I thought I would take a break--because my surroundings do indeed affect my spirit. Well, never went back. We had been members at that point for 26 years. And steady financial supporters. And I even an elder. Now, very peculiar this---despite those last 3 qualities, the church never once contacted us after we stopped showing up. I have figured that when God wants me to change this out-situation, He will tell me (because He has spoken to me several times).
"However, I realized that when I enter the sanctuary, I want to be silent and prayerful, and open to God's voice. Not to be socializing."
Amen. Just one spot for reflection, prayer and silence. The Vatican II Catholic Churches have destroyed that - it's all socializing, all the time, in front of the altar and sanctuary. Now at the TLM Parish I attend, the only group socializing is the saying of the Rosary 30 minutes before Mass. Sometimes I partake in the group prayer and sometimes I don't.
"And I even an elder. Now, very peculiar this---despite those last 3 qualities, the church never once contacted us after we stopped showing up."
That tells you so much doesn't it? But God contacted you and that is all that matters. He will direct you in where He wants you to go. "Church-less," "anonymous-Churched," or "fully-Churched." One thing I do know is that God does not want Tripwires and Type 5 Assessments in His House of Prayer.
Thanks so much for replying, Napoleon--and for validating what I think is His purpose--because I have often wondered whether I am just rationalizing to make my Sunday mornings easier. An aside---the PCUSA website makes so clear their pro-pro-pro stance on the injections, even stating that they disallowed 'religious exemptions'. !!-- Ergo, the congregation must be filled with shedders...and I avoid proximity to those who have taken the jab--at least, until I find evidence that my fears lack ground.
My substack readings each morning lead me to so much Bible reading. A friend told me she is doing one of those 'read the Bible in a year' programs--such have never appealed to me. Thinking about it yesterday, I realized that I don't want someone telling me what (and when) I have to read of scripture---but what is going on now, in Substack, is that commenters are posting their thoughts, then including scripture relevant to their posts, and by following their lead I am led to passages which are highly relevant to current concerns. The lectionary is a nice idea--but it is static. Substack (there are SO many Christians here) is making a place for God's word to be its own dynamic self. [And having typed that penultimate word, I had to go upstairs to check in my Liddell and Scott--yup--dynamis--power, force, strength--forces of war. ]
Also, the Presbyterians--who facetiously refer to themselves as "God's frozen chosen", being of a dour (that Scottish background!) disposition, took from the RC Church 'the passing of the peace'--which was a totally artificial imposition on our denominational habit/character. Another borrow: standing in line to take communion, where we had always taken it in our pews--sitting down, not moving around--peaceful and prayerful. All in the name of ecumenism.
I left my church of 20 years when I saw that did not support medical freedom.
So many people did the same. Our eyes were really opened up to the tyranny around us, even in Church which should be the last place for such tyranny. So many people switched Churches or left never to come back to any Church. But so many people also discovered God again, even if just spiritually. In 20 years we will look back and see all the good coming out of the evil of the last three years - that's probably why the Feds are trying to infiltrate Churches, it must stop any good from happening (adjusting my tin-foil hat again!).
I found a different church I like, but getting my young adult kids to go back to church after 2020 a very difficult endeavor. I can't say I'm less spiritual though. I turn to the Bible more.
I was taught there should be no gray area and with each year that passes, what my old church teaches is more and more gray.
Hi Kokanee, beautiful and thoughtful comment. God has to be lived with 24/7/365, not just thought about one hour a week. So why Church and is Church just man-made? That's probably why I just hover as an anonymous Church-goer. I'm trying to figure out the narrow path, without tripwires! Different people get different things out of different religions and Churches, and that's probably what God intends - but all roads must lead to Him, which you say is Peace and freedom knowing all things.
To your and Kokanee thoughful comments we do indeed have a ‘God shaped hole’ and a built-in yearning for connection with our Maker. The original ‘deposit of faith and teachings’ of Christ’s Church is the lens through which the Scriptures are to be interpreted. It isn’t what I think they mean, it’s what the Church (through the Holy Fathers and Apostles) says about them that brings clarity and hope. Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today and forever. The decaying remains of our post-“Enlightment” culture worships autonomy to the point of madness. May the Lord guide and bless you with His peace.
Informationthat I did not know about Paul. There's always been something that nags at me about Paul and I don't know what it is. Someday I will really delve into his letters.