Our family is in Michigan, and we rely on an electric geo-thermal open loop system for our heating and cooling, and have a hybrid electric / ambient air heat pump type water heater. The only regular appliance we have on propane is the gas cooktop (not incl oven) in the kitchen.
We have an 'equal monthly payment plan' with our electric provider (Consumers Energy), and our payment for electric is $490. X 12 months a year. ouch.
If we'd had any idea it would be so expensive, we never would have bought the place.
We have a decent income at this point, but come retirement we'll have to move or freeze, because I just don't see electricity costs going down, in the long run.
My brother lives in Maryland and has a heat pump furnace. They are generally mild but do get their share of storms or cold swings. He complains it doesn’t sufficiently heat the house.
490 x12 that’s crazy high. I read today after January 3rd natural gas is going up 17.5 % and other utilities going up.
Currently I spend about 50-60 month electric and my last natural gas fuel bill was 86.00.
Yes, it's high here. Partly it's because we have a fairly large house, and partly because our electric runs all heat/ac, oven, microwave, washer/dryer, water heater. We do have a small propane tank to run our cooktop burners, though. And the geo-thermal is a horrible energy-hog here; I don't think Michigan is a good place for geo-thermal heating. The cooling works much better.
I do believe that is the goal here in the US. Covid and record profits for Big Harma was the precursor. Now its Big Energy's turn. Apparently record profits can only happen on the backs of mass murder. Actually history has always shown that.
That is terrible, Persian. I hope you are able to at least put plastic film on the windows to at least keep the draft down, if they're older windows.
We've added some insulation in one of our basement walls that isn't completely underground this year. Where we are, the frostline is about 3' or so underground, so having a basement, if we no longer have heat we can move down there for some protection. About 5' underground here it's supposedly 55 degrees Fahrenheit year round.
We've doubled our supply of blankets as well. And bought leg-warmers and woolen socks.
I sincerely hope none of us have to endure freezing in our homes. What is civilization for if they suddenly change the rules so that all of people's previously labors and planning, and what they rely on, are nullified?
Funny you talk about basements. My sis was just talking about how it makes more sense to build houses underground if we want to save the planet. As you say, we wouldn't need a heat or cooling source to live in it. But since that make so much sense it will never happen.
Oh yes that will surely happen. Once we are forced to buy an EV, the peak electric usage will be at night when we are all charging our vehicles. Then the state will freak out and turn off your electricity usage at that time. You will wake up freezing with a dead vehicle in the driveway. Good times!
I don't know about other types, but I'm pretty certain the only way they could control ours using the smart meter would be to cut off (or limit) our access to grid electricity in general.
I do know, however, jniw that putting a 'smart' thermostat on your system, and then allowing them to know about it (including model and serial number) could easily lead the authorities and/or electricity providers being able to control what your thermostat is allowed to tell your system to do.
The above is the reason that when our family replaced our thermostats last year (we have two geo-systems, one for each floor of the house) with modern 'smart' ones, we ate the cost and simply did not fill out the two '$500 rebate' forms, so it cost us $1,000. total not to do that.
BUT, neither the power companies, nor anyone else, knows that these thermostats are installed at THIS address, or what sort of system they're on. They do not know the model of our thermostats, nor do they have the serial numbers. We did not connect them to our home wi-fi at all, or any other form of communication other than the wires in the walls (which only go between the geo system and the thermostat).
Now, if they want to cut us off from the grid, or make our smart meter ration our use, then there's nothing we can do to stop them. However, we have a few 220w portable panels, and some Ecoflow Pro battery packs, so we can supplement for specific NON-geothermal ( the geo is too high amperage for our battery/solar) appliances and other things we can plug directly into them, in case they ration us. And if they cut us off completely, we'll just turn off the high-amp geo circuits, and if it's winter we move to the basement (warmer when without heat), and we can still run our well and septic, and a few lights and maybe a frig if we get enough sunny days.
Yes, it's not a perfect setup, but it may be survivable.
We've started sort of accruing methods of allowing for subsistence, lately. It's what we can do, so we do it. It goes along well with having a very well stocked pantry, and other things I won't mention.
The aim of smart meters (at least in the UK) is eventually to have dynamic pricing.
Like now it is 04:20 so electricity is in little demand so it would be cheap, however at 17:30 on a Monday evening in a work week there is barely enough as it is so it would be expensive.
I don't know if this is happening everywhere but in the UK it is the plan.
Where I am (rural Michigan,USA) we are supplied by a private company. That company has started 2 summers ago) to charge more per Kwh during the hours of 2pm til 7pm local time during June-end of Sept. If the state decides to do a surcharge as well, it will probably be in addition to the existing company surcharge. I hope they don't!
Ouch is right! Five hundred dollars a month to heat/cool your home? I know for sure I will not be able to afford that. Just one more reason for me to move out of this state. God help me.
Question - how does the thermal pump work in the winter? Do you rely on hybrid pump more?
You are right that electricity costs will only INCREASE when it is the ONLY fuel source used for EVERYTHING. In a capitalistic society a range of different products leads to choice and lower costs. But we are no longer in a capitalistic society - we live in a communist society. Thank God I'm old and will be tripping the light fandango off this planet before I see the destruction of humanity back to the dark ages. I'm so sorry children of the earth.
The $490/mo is for all our electricity. That's two geo-thermal heat/cool units (non-hybrid), one electric/air heat pump hybrid hot water heater, all of our lights, our well-pump and septic, fridge/freezer, microwave, wall oven, computers/tvs, the usual.
We are going to start supplementing some solar once the sun starts coming out more often, with our little solar panel/battery pack system, which should help some. It will be a bit cumbersome, as the only interface options we have for it are either using the switch panel that we can plug into after disconnecting ALL our electric from the grid, OR we can run some of the more electricity-intense appliances by directly plugging them in on one of our two battery packs (they have that feature-yay!).
We should be able to reduce the bill in a significant way, obviously it's not perfect. It IS, however, portable. The whole lot would either fill the cargo area on our little hybrid car (if we had to bolt), or about a third of our station wagon's cargo area. 40 mpg vs. 19 mpg. hmmmm Hopefully we'll never have to choose!
I think God is propelling me to warmer climes. Since I am stuck here in the frozen tundra for now (family issues) I went ahead and ordered a personal ELECTRIC sauna to stick in my basement. I told God if I can't get to Arizona, can I at least have Arizona in my basement? I never thought I would need to sit in my personal sauna as a heating source in my house, but that may be God's plan for now.
My son Keenan has a family size sauna in his garage. He and his wife own and run the largest Amazon delivery company in Kansas City so they need a place to decompress from stress. It seems to work for them and it also has red light therapy. Yes, God does have a plan for you and so with faith we can move forward with hope in the furure, come what may.
Wood allowed?
You know I didn't see that addressed, but my guess is no. There is no way NY is going to allow dreaded smoke in the air from icky wood.
Our family is in Michigan, and we rely on an electric geo-thermal open loop system for our heating and cooling, and have a hybrid electric / ambient air heat pump type water heater. The only regular appliance we have on propane is the gas cooktop (not incl oven) in the kitchen.
We have an 'equal monthly payment plan' with our electric provider (Consumers Energy), and our payment for electric is $490. X 12 months a year. ouch.
If we'd had any idea it would be so expensive, we never would have bought the place.
We have a decent income at this point, but come retirement we'll have to move or freeze, because I just don't see electricity costs going down, in the long run.
My brother lives in Maryland and has a heat pump furnace. They are generally mild but do get their share of storms or cold swings. He complains it doesn’t sufficiently heat the house.
490 x12 that’s crazy high. I read today after January 3rd natural gas is going up 17.5 % and other utilities going up.
Currently I spend about 50-60 month electric and my last natural gas fuel bill was 86.00.
Yes, it's high here. Partly it's because we have a fairly large house, and partly because our electric runs all heat/ac, oven, microwave, washer/dryer, water heater. We do have a small propane tank to run our cooktop burners, though. And the geo-thermal is a horrible energy-hog here; I don't think Michigan is a good place for geo-thermal heating. The cooling works much better.
The UK method is to make both gas and electric so expensive that the energy companies are boasting of record profits as we freeze in our homes.
I do believe that is the goal here in the US. Covid and record profits for Big Harma was the precursor. Now its Big Energy's turn. Apparently record profits can only happen on the backs of mass murder. Actually history has always shown that.
That is terrible, Persian. I hope you are able to at least put plastic film on the windows to at least keep the draft down, if they're older windows.
We've added some insulation in one of our basement walls that isn't completely underground this year. Where we are, the frostline is about 3' or so underground, so having a basement, if we no longer have heat we can move down there for some protection. About 5' underground here it's supposedly 55 degrees Fahrenheit year round.
We've doubled our supply of blankets as well. And bought leg-warmers and woolen socks.
I sincerely hope none of us have to endure freezing in our homes. What is civilization for if they suddenly change the rules so that all of people's previously labors and planning, and what they rely on, are nullified?
Funny you talk about basements. My sis was just talking about how it makes more sense to build houses underground if we want to save the planet. As you say, we wouldn't need a heat or cooling source to live in it. But since that make so much sense it will never happen.
There is a complicating factor when building underground: radon seepage into living spaces.
I always thought they pushed heat pump as a heat source because with a smart meter they can control the temp of your house.
Oh yes that will surely happen. Once we are forced to buy an EV, the peak electric usage will be at night when we are all charging our vehicles. Then the state will freak out and turn off your electricity usage at that time. You will wake up freezing with a dead vehicle in the driveway. Good times!
I don't know about other types, but I'm pretty certain the only way they could control ours using the smart meter would be to cut off (or limit) our access to grid electricity in general.
I do know, however, jniw that putting a 'smart' thermostat on your system, and then allowing them to know about it (including model and serial number) could easily lead the authorities and/or electricity providers being able to control what your thermostat is allowed to tell your system to do.
The above is the reason that when our family replaced our thermostats last year (we have two geo-systems, one for each floor of the house) with modern 'smart' ones, we ate the cost and simply did not fill out the two '$500 rebate' forms, so it cost us $1,000. total not to do that.
BUT, neither the power companies, nor anyone else, knows that these thermostats are installed at THIS address, or what sort of system they're on. They do not know the model of our thermostats, nor do they have the serial numbers. We did not connect them to our home wi-fi at all, or any other form of communication other than the wires in the walls (which only go between the geo system and the thermostat).
Now, if they want to cut us off from the grid, or make our smart meter ration our use, then there's nothing we can do to stop them. However, we have a few 220w portable panels, and some Ecoflow Pro battery packs, so we can supplement for specific NON-geothermal ( the geo is too high amperage for our battery/solar) appliances and other things we can plug directly into them, in case they ration us. And if they cut us off completely, we'll just turn off the high-amp geo circuits, and if it's winter we move to the basement (warmer when without heat), and we can still run our well and septic, and a few lights and maybe a frig if we get enough sunny days.
Yes, it's not a perfect setup, but it may be survivable.
We've started sort of accruing methods of allowing for subsistence, lately. It's what we can do, so we do it. It goes along well with having a very well stocked pantry, and other things I won't mention.
Did the same never sent in the rebate.
Very wise!
The aim of smart meters (at least in the UK) is eventually to have dynamic pricing.
Like now it is 04:20 so electricity is in little demand so it would be cheap, however at 17:30 on a Monday evening in a work week there is barely enough as it is so it would be expensive.
I don't know if this is happening everywhere but in the UK it is the plan.
Where I am (rural Michigan,USA) we are supplied by a private company. That company has started 2 summers ago) to charge more per Kwh during the hours of 2pm til 7pm local time during June-end of Sept. If the state decides to do a surcharge as well, it will probably be in addition to the existing company surcharge. I hope they don't!
Ouch is right! Five hundred dollars a month to heat/cool your home? I know for sure I will not be able to afford that. Just one more reason for me to move out of this state. God help me.
Question - how does the thermal pump work in the winter? Do you rely on hybrid pump more?
You are right that electricity costs will only INCREASE when it is the ONLY fuel source used for EVERYTHING. In a capitalistic society a range of different products leads to choice and lower costs. But we are no longer in a capitalistic society - we live in a communist society. Thank God I'm old and will be tripping the light fandango off this planet before I see the destruction of humanity back to the dark ages. I'm so sorry children of the earth.
The $490/mo is for all our electricity. That's two geo-thermal heat/cool units (non-hybrid), one electric/air heat pump hybrid hot water heater, all of our lights, our well-pump and septic, fridge/freezer, microwave, wall oven, computers/tvs, the usual.
We are going to start supplementing some solar once the sun starts coming out more often, with our little solar panel/battery pack system, which should help some. It will be a bit cumbersome, as the only interface options we have for it are either using the switch panel that we can plug into after disconnecting ALL our electric from the grid, OR we can run some of the more electricity-intense appliances by directly plugging them in on one of our two battery packs (they have that feature-yay!).
We should be able to reduce the bill in a significant way, obviously it's not perfect. It IS, however, portable. The whole lot would either fill the cargo area on our little hybrid car (if we had to bolt), or about a third of our station wagon's cargo area. 40 mpg vs. 19 mpg. hmmmm Hopefully we'll never have to choose!
Indeed, it is a Satanic, anti-human agenda at play.
It is so obvious even atheists can see it. But yet 90% of humanity goes along with it.
I've mentioned, during conversation with others, that I don't believe that climate change is occurring. They look at me as if I were a lunatic.
Propaganda is very, very effective.
I hated to tap the like button on this post!! I am so sorry to hear this insane news! It's pure nonsense of course.
Wonders never cease these days.
I think God is propelling me to warmer climes. Since I am stuck here in the frozen tundra for now (family issues) I went ahead and ordered a personal ELECTRIC sauna to stick in my basement. I told God if I can't get to Arizona, can I at least have Arizona in my basement? I never thought I would need to sit in my personal sauna as a heating source in my house, but that may be God's plan for now.
NYS is a hellhole.
My son Keenan has a family size sauna in his garage. He and his wife own and run the largest Amazon delivery company in Kansas City so they need a place to decompress from stress. It seems to work for them and it also has red light therapy. Yes, God does have a plan for you and so with faith we can move forward with hope in the furure, come what may.
Did Kojak say "Who loves ya, baby?" Jesus please come soon🙏💞
Yes indeedy he did. Jesus loves us, that's who Mr. Kojack!
No words. I've run out of things to say. Please come quick, Jesus